Most middle school textbooks "suck," asserted copyright reform activist Karl Fogel at the panel on illegal downloading CPU hosted Wednesday night. Fogel's statement was one of several that made the night exciting for attendees. Though not explicitly concerned with illegal downloading, Fogel's assertion about the quality of textbooks might be seen as emblematic of his larger argument that the current copyright system is not in line with social priorities. Fogel was joined by several distinguished advocates on the issue.

Joining Fogel on the panel was lawyer and Viacom Vice President Stanley Pierre-Louis, whose position is contrary to Fogel's. The panel was moderated by Columbia Law School Professor June Besek, who began the night by providing the audience with a well-articulated presentation of how the current copyright system works and why we have it.

Following Besek's opening remarks, Fogel responded to Besek's statement that copyright law was intended to provide an incentive for creativity by asserting that copyright law "was designed around distribution, not creation." Besek disagreed, refining her statement to say that copyright law was created with both distribution and creation in mind, although Fogel still disagreed. Pierre-Louis offered his perspective, claiming that "separating creation and distribution doesn't make sense," since people create with the intent to distribute.

Pierre-Louis continued to give some background on his work and opinions, surprisingly agreeing with Fogel's assertion in his introduction that copyright law is a "civil rights issue." He emphasized the moral and personal elements of copyright: "the reason copyright sits on this pedestal is because of where it's coming from." Pierre-Louis explained how record deals work, highlighting that companies like Viacom actually lose on about eight out of ten deals. He emphasized that copyrighted works are produced by individuals, and they are the ones who suffer when copyrights are infringed upon.

Fogel compared copyright to slavery, saying that it is a "zero sum choice." If artists choose to copyright their work, he argued, they are taking away the consumers' choice to download. Besek refuted this point, calling it "overkill," and switched the conversation over to the subject of textbooks. Fogel immediately pointed out that copyright prevents "remix textbooks" and that "the publisher is the monopoly," adding that most grade school textbooks "suck." Besek replied that "this is a marketplace, not a monopoly," with which Fogel agreed to disagree.

The panel then moved to questions from the audience, starting with a question about the potential effectiveness of the Radiohead model. Besek answered first, saying that it is "great to try new things," and that she would be in favor of it if artists are satisfied and making money. Fogel talked about the restrictions of the Radiohead model, specifying that it can only work for a few very famous artists since small-scale artists don't want to manage themselves and don't have the resources to do so. Pierre-Louis asserted that "artists should be free to experiment" with different amounts of self-management.

The next question focused on the ineffectiveness of litigation, the inevitability of illegal downloading, and asked how artists and companies plan to combat this "unstoppable force." Pierre-Louis laid out the "two-pronged attack" regarding both the music and movie industries. For movies, the goal in his view is to "prevent [pirating] for long enough" for the legitimate version to get off the ground. For music, efforts to "prevent it from getting leaked" will be the most successful. He stressed that management companies must "meet the consumer where they are," focusing on more digital distribution and providing other incentives to watch and listen legally. Fogel reasserted his opinion that "the goal of the industry is to make lives more difficult" and that remix works are unfairly suppressed and therefore invisible. Getting the final word in, Pierre-Louis joked, "we're virus free," concluding the heated discussion on a light note.